So I found my husbands lover in my home almost 3 yrs ago, but I also discovered this website 2 months ago, and I am so very glad to find this support system & although turning my back completely on the one I cherished & adored for years seems impossible for me to do,I know I have to & I remind myself how effortless it was for him to humiliate, accuse, ignore & complain about my behavior after I find his lover in our home, and really it is the best & healthiest thing you can do for yourself. Sad as it seems all that love & hope that we felt in our relationship was only felt by us & the only thing they can feel is for themselves. So knowing that I am not alone & not a fool for truly loving another human being gives me Hope that there must be a great prize in store for us because we have gone & continue to go through hell& chaos because of another person's selfishness, but we are still here & we are still real & honest, loving & kind, but wiser now & stronger, even though many times I feel so weak,I know that this too shall pass...Just stay true to your heart & intuition. We are the lucky ones because we understand & know how to really feel love & empathy for another, but they are unable to feel anything at all...

Sorry I didn't log in, but I am a real feeling, loving & hoping human being just like you who also unfortunately has had to experience the pain & heartache of trying to live & make sense of our lives after betrayal.

good for you lynn. i exposed mine after he cheated and lied about everything for the last 3 years we were together for 10. he ruined my career and destryoed me financially. but im still alive. i cant afford legal advice. the separation is upon us and he is lying and cheating his way through. i just want my share of the house we co own to be paid but he wont. i will get a tiny maintence offer. i have so much evidence against him, if i was vindictive i cld destroy him so easily. weve been apart for a year, he abandoned the marital home when i found out

i still expect normalresponses nd then i get back the same crap. i have my card to settle too.

I think I may have had low emotional intelligence throughout my life which came out sometimes as narcissism.

I was unkind and reacted in anger as that is how my family modeled conflict. Children were to be seen but not heard. I recall being in therapy at a breakthrough where I was one on one with a counselor - I was raging and crying and so depressed. I was saying over and over MOM why can't I tell you how I feel? Why am I not allowed to say what I feel? Why do I have to be told to shut up and fighting or conflict unless you and Dad brought it on was WRONG.

Why did you both tell me to hold it in and yell at me while I hurt inside. I have nightmares where I am trying to talk and no noise comes out. I literally end up screaming but again - no noise is available. I am frustrated and feel like I am literally dying and no one gave a damn about how I felt or what I thought.

In my family conflict was a very negative bad bad thing to feel. Only my parents - my mom - could have it and drink and act out on us. My dad was always the peacemaker. He tried to help me but my siblings taunted him and I calling m daddys little girl. He saw what they did to me and tried to protect me in a gentle way. I got beat up emotionally and physically by my mom and siblings. The siblings would always talk about how they wanted to kill me or beat me up when my parents were not home. I would hear this and react screaming for them to stop it. They didnt even feel bad. They just laughed and told me to shut up or they would come and kill me right then and there. I felt sick, depressed and unloved inside. I felt no one wanted me or loved me.

My mom would drink and rage at me for hours on end over world issues. She would develop an english accent and talk weird. I think she had an allergy to booze. Her neck and face would turn red and she would start in with one glass of wine. Thats all it took.

She would corner me and rage at me for hours. Her behavior was that of a woman who was in clear pain in her marriage and unable to cope with all the children and handicapped brother. She was sick with alcoholism and I felt for her even when she raged. I did not deserve it and I could not help her but wanted to.

It messed up my childhood. She drank while pregnant with me and I believe a lot of my deep clinical depression is a result of that combined with severe mistreatment of my emotional needs.

I am not mad at her but feel sorry for her. She had a lot to deal with and no one seemed to support her so I easily identified with her.

Later it took its toll. I would pick her up off the loo after she drank and mixed drugs. She was in so much emotional pain but I am not sure of where each pain came from.

Later in life I became severely clinically ill and unable to function. I ended up in a psych ward and these issues came out.

I had to be reparented by an amazing therapist name Kathleen McCarty. She was brilliant and literally saved my life. I owe her every ounce of gratitude for helping me.

I still had much to learn and unlearn. My relationship with my passive aggressive husband combined with my history was very bad. He would ignore issues and they would worsen and then I would end up screaming out of frustration. I always felt guilty for hurting him and felt I was a bad person. And then he would stick his head in the sand when I said we both needed help.

I feel I had a self centered view of my emotions as I was taught that the only one in my family who cared about me was myself. No one supported me or how I felt. I was always trying to protect myself from being hurt by siblings. I turned inward and tried to self soothe even as a 7 yr old. I would sit there and repeat: I am not here. I am not here. Turns out this is a coping mechanism called dissociation. Most kids to this but stop at some point as adults. I did not. I eventually ended up having debilitating panic attacks.

I kept telling my husband and family I felt weird and was afraid as though something were wrong. They kept saying you are ok and just need a vacation. I knew something was boiling.

I would get upset at a lot of things. I would yell a lot. I would overwhelm easily. I was afraid of screwing up all the time.

My husband was a good man but had his own brand of withholding like how a person rewards good behavior and ignores bad behavior in dogs. He ignored our issues and only spoke to me if it was about everything except our marriage or a problem with our families.

This combination was the worst ever.

I got counseling and I went religiously. I wanted him to go but as I improved, he became worse in his own depression. Now the pendulum swung in an opposite direction leaving me confused.

After my less than a wk hospitalization we had the best yr of our long marriage until I relapsed a yr later in a panic attack. He withdrew and it all went badly.

We divorced and I continued counseling. I made a lot of mistakes and feel horrible for hurting anyone along the way. I learned to feel pain of others and apologize to open the door of communication. I put myself in their shoes while setting my self child protecting pseudo adult aside so I could better emotionally evolve to help them.

I have at times been passive aggressive because I lacked the skills to handle conflict. My emotional intelligence should have been more advanced so I could have not been so afraid of conflict or expressing how I felt.

I do not want to be this way and I genuinely feel terrible if I know someone is upset by my actions. I try to make amends and change my approach to the matters at hand in the future. I am not always successful at this but I must allow credit and see that I do not sulk long and if I am wrong I realize it very soon and apologize and offer an explanation and direction for the future to better resolve and stop fearing conflict.

I loved a man who is both deeply narc. and PA and it reflected things I needed to change in myself. How to recognize the damaging effect it has on others. How to be more kind and giving. Unfortunately this ended up with my over doing to help - but this time it was motivated from a true love for them and not out of fear of being wrong or BAD. Sadly, the depth of his NARC PA was profound and I was sucked up until I had nothing left to give. He would emotionally drain me and vacillated between adoration and sheer rejection. He wanted closeness but as soon as he had me back he would disconnect and treat me with such PA disrespect and almost hatred for loving him.

He would blame me when I would leave saying I ran from him every time we had a good experience. But the truth is, he would disconnect with basic respect and PA the day after he and I had an amazing breakthrough of deepening love. He had a hard if not impossible time saying he loved me or complimenting me. It was always about how great he was. It was not a shared spotlight. It was his life and I was but his accessory.

I would catch him in lies both admitted and not - provided proof in concrete and he would deny it.

I would get so sad and just break up with him. He would then scream at me saying I was running. I didnt run. I walked. Because staying with a man who only had direct eye contact with me and showed true closeness when we were broken up and would talk, hurt too much. I always thought he would really mean what he said and try to work on these things. He would disconnect almost as soon as he had me back. So to him it seemed I was running and screwed things up. It was his own self hatred that caused the disconnect in a way in which I was pushed away and when I would get hurt he would be PA and deny and not listen to me. He would say it was all my fault and we would have a good time and the next day I would have an issue. The issue is that the next day he stopped being NICE and doing the requisite polite common decent shows of love he had the day prior. Not in a small way. In a HUGE way. So huge that I would hate myself for failing and not being heard.

If anything - it reminded me to step out of myself and believe more that an apology is not an admission but a forum to begin anew with better emotional intelligence and an opportunity to improve. Not digress.

I hope in the future I can be a better person and someone will one day be able to talk to me and I will feel safe to work through conflict with them without fear.

Ladies and men please google Janine Driver she is the Lyin Tamer and she will teach you how to sniff out a lyer with her new body language......her info was what made me see how much of a liar i was with.....all lyers use the same words and phrases......be very careful with tenses...

when they say "Why WOULD I cheat on you?".....would is a future tense word..so if you are askimg if he cheated, the right answer is "NO".... Also you will learn the truth will always be in the lie...Note the....I cheat on you...that is the truth he did cheat on you if he had not cheated on you he would simply answer the question with a "NO"

Janine Driver helped me decipher the lies and their were so many i dont think he was capable of even knowing the truth.

Narcissists can be manipulated into doing what you want.....They never shine better than when they are keeping the ship from sinking and saving the day.....it strokes their ego and their ego is in huge need, (they are extremely insecure people).......When u need something (and u can not be angry and start fighting with him u have to stay calm ) u need to act somewhat pathetic, worried, tell them "I don't know what im going to do, im flat broke and need @#$^&|$.....He WILL find a way to rescue um (if your calm)...Not because he loves u (Narcissists only love themselves), but because it puts him in control and makes him the hero.....this was my biggest mistake cause i was too angry while i was on my way out...

Now while u are ACTING pathetic and needy but CALM and sucking as much money and stuff out of him as u can....u need to get evidence of his cheating. For $100.00 buy a GPS device and plant it in his car, under the seat works perfect and unless he is OCD he will never find it....buy lots of batteries they need to be changed often especially if he drives alot....the device plugs into a computer easily and downloads to Google Earth....they are very very accurate... if u find evidence that he is cheating, do not confront him. This evidence is only for the end of the relationship, when and if u need it. when U are ready to walk.....because he will trash u and call u crazy and tell everyone u know, that u need to be in a mental institution, he is a great liar and manipulator and that is why so many women stay soooooo long....they pray on kind generous woman and suck them dry.....I also made him have itemized phone bill after he was caught cheating for the 5th or 6th time......matching the phone bill to the GPS told me a ton WOW.....With this evidence at hand over time u have ur reason to kick him out on your terms when your ready...AND HE WILL LEAVE WILLINGLY BECAUSE A NARCISSISTS BIGGEST FEAR IS THAT FRIENDS AND FAMILY WILL FIND OUT WHAT HE REALLY IS...HIS REPUTATION MEANS EVERYTHING TO HIM, HE WILL PROTECT IT AT ALL COSTS... U MEAN AS MUCH AS HIS BIC LIGHTER......THIS WORKED WELL FOR ME, ONCE HE KNEW I HAD THE EVIDENCE AND WOULD SHOW EVERYONE....AND I WANT TO TELL U DO NOT GO THERE... DO NOT EXPOSE HIM IF YOU DO NOT HAVE TOO.... BECAUSE U MAY VERY WELL LOOK LIKE THE BAD ONE. NO MATER WHAT THE MONSTER-IN-LAW WILL TAKE HER SONS SIDE.....

I told my monster-in-law that her son cheats on me every time we have a fight and her response was that maybe I shouldnt fight with him.....I was so insulted i made her repeat herself...and sure enough she did....That was the exact day that i started my manipulation of him and got the upper hand.....I knew at that point i was leaving and i started figuring out my escape plan.....

It took me three years to get back on my feet after he used me for 13 years, he sucked me dry but i eventually got my power back in the last 3 years....I am an educated woman and make good money, so in the last three years i stopped spending a dime on him and i paid my debt....

There is no better feeling than manipulating the manupulator.......I was taught that if i have a problem FIX IT....

WHILE U ARE FIGURING OUT YOUR ESCAPE PLAN. DON'T TRUST ANYONE, DO NOT TELL ANYONE WHAT YOU ARE DOING, IF THE NARCISSIST FINDS OUT U ARE OUTWITTING HIM IT COULD BE VERY DANGEROUS, EVEN DEADLY. KEEP THIS MANIPULATION OF THE NARCISSIST TO YOURSELF.....AND I KNOW U REALLY HAVE TO BE A GOOD ACTRESS....DONT EVEN TELL UR BEST FRIEND, MOTHER, SISTER NO ONE PEOPLE TALK AND THIS NEEDS TO BE YOUR SECRET....

I will keep the evidence i have on him for the rest of my life so he cant come back on me for slander now that i have posted this on internet

He likely took years from u, if u need time to get ur shit together then take it.....u deserve it....it took me 3 years and i have never felt betrer.....

STAY CALM AND HAVE FAITH THE END IS CLOSE

Dusty...thanks for sharing your story. You sure are brave. You've done a lot of work and self-realization...good for you! You may want to check out Al-A-Non. or Adult Children of Alcoholics. I, too, grew up with an alcoholic parent. It' tough....hang in there...you deserve way better and will get it.

Liz that is solid advice - and I have learned to find direction in Al A Anon

TY! I want to get better and be a better person and trust people again. Want to give love from my heart because I truly see beauty in others and embrace it.

Good for u girl...what we women need is a search engine with cheating narcissists and sociopaths names....when we are a victim of a relationship like this it is always discovered even if it is not for 30 or 40 years, the truth always comes out.....please someone develop a website of known cheaters.....ill give u the second name.....Pierre Bouillon of Sudbury, Ontario......AND PLEASE LADYS TEACH ALL OF OUR DAUGHTERS HOW TO RECOGNIZE ONE OF THESE ASSHOLES.

Thank you for writing me some thing so heart felt

Thank you so much Elise. Your response is very well written. I wanted to add that the typical "Narcissistic Mother" that you describe sometimes is male...my father has all of these qualities to a T. I grew up in an abusive household with a narcissistic father who beat me up regularly...I was a straight A kid going to school in CT in the 60's and everyone saw...but noone did a thing. Went to a great university and settled into a great job in NYC and married a guy who beat me up regularly as well. (ya think i'd learn?) and then took 10 years to heal and "find myself" and get an MBA. well don't you know that was when my father cut me off. he couldn't bear to see someone more successful than he...He only came back into my life after I married again and had kids. I've since divorced and can sadly say spend zero holiday with my father, brother and his family. My father successfully told all that I was the BLACK SHEEP and mentally ill. (Yeah i struggle with depression and sometimes take meds) My son just had his bar mitzvah...and all my father wanted to know was...what was HE doing for the bar mitzvah. The service? So I did the right thing and gave him some honors. It's now nearly 6 months later and we haven't heard from my father. My brother's kid had a bat mitzvah 6 weeks after my son's...and my father paid for the entire thing. He didn't even buy a bottle of wine for my kid's luncheon. So now my kids are struggling with being the BLACK SHEEP also. Which is funny considering they are A kids in honors classes and do sports as well as millions of chores.

The funny thing is...we're happier this way. My father is evil. He is making my brother and sister in law over in his image. He has totally disconnected me from all of my family. And it is SO HURTFUL. But maybe for the best.

I read your entry Elise and it gives me comfort to know that I've walked away from a monster. My father may be showering love and attention onto my brother and his family, but there's alot of suffering that will come of it. This kind of thing is perpetuated. We are better off.

It sounds like you have the smothering narcissistic mother. i have the ignoring narcissistic mother, but they (your mother and mine) do the same thing as narcissistic mothers. They take over and take control over everyone and everything you love. They try (very successfully) to make you the outcast and reject of your own life even though most daughters will keep crawling back to see if they will get their mother's approval and love. ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. EVER. Not even if you change your responses to them and agree with everything they say and be their doormat. MY ADVICE TO YOU: If you are able to support yourself and stay away from boyfriends and girlfriends who are like her in behavior towards you, and you can find a way to be self confident in your own worth, and be calm, then STAY AWAY. I know you want a family, and be loved by your family, but you will never have this with her around. I am sorry. But for your own health and safety (for your soul, spirit, dignity and stress levels etc) you must move away from her and stay away without feeling any guilt or shame (which they LOVE to do) and BE YOUR OWN FAMILY. Know this, I tried many decades (to earn my mother's love, be not longer the "bad seed, etc.), and as a person in your same boat, I can tell you I understand, and for your comfort, I send you my love and support. You are not alone anymore. And you are lucky, VERY LUCKY to realize this, at such a young age, as I didn't even know there was a name for this kind of treatment until recently (and I'm in my 40's) when I typed in a search engine: is there a illness for a mother who rejects their daughter? And amazingly I get a textbook version of my life experience. So, please take my advice. And though a smothering mother is considering less painful than a ignoring mother, you need to know when to turn away (without arguing with them - at all - as that doesnt work with them). If you need to see your brother, make sure you can take him somewhere with you, so you can spend time alone with him, like make it you are doing a favor for her, otherwise, if it is too uncomfortable to be under her stare, then you must stay away or find a way to keep your self esteem when you see him. What she says isnt true about you. You are a worthy family member. You are a worthy person deserving respect without strings attached. Remember that!

If they're not good to you...they're not good for you.

Best revenge for me has been to see the N's own adult children start to understand these traits and confront N about them. It's taken 10 years. Although in the end nothing will really change, it is fun to see N's "perfect image" being upset by own children.

My children have taken a bit and still more to go, but they are finally seeing their dad's "N" behavior. He has vacated to another state (and has a new gf, whew, maybe he will marry her). But the best revenge is for my children seeing that their dad doesn't care. He is letting our house go under foreclosure. Thank goodness I have another attorney so I can protect me and my children from the sickness he has. Good luck to all those who are married to the "N". Chin up!!

excellent advice, thx

I read many articles on Narcissistic Personality Disorders and this one is the most insightful. I am dealing with a husband with this disorder after 30 years of marriage and it has been a living hell. It seems like he cannot ever get his act together with finances, providing housing and living stability for his family and other aspects of making life enjoyable and stable for me, as his wife. He is classic in how he reacts to difficulties and other personal challenges and frustrations, blaming me for what goes wrong. I would like to say to any one who is confronted by a person, initially entering their lives for the first time in a relationship who is CHARMING, ATTENTIVE TO THEIR EVERY NEED, OVERBEARING, CONTROLLING or does not allow personal space outside of them, in the dating phase of the relationship, PLEASE RUN LIKE HELL FROM SUCH A PERSON. These are all clues that something is OFF BASE and needs your immediate attention. Healthy people do not have a need to DOMINATE OTHER PEOPLE LIVES, in order to get recognition or to be valued. This kind of person will destroy your life in every area to gain leverage of their own and are emotionally dangerous to be with, on a short-term or long-term basis. BE WISE AND RECOGNIZE THE DANGER SIGNS EARLY ON FOR YOUR SAFETY AND SANITY.